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Better video / filming at the worlds 2006 in Sheffield
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Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 32
Location: universal

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:04 pm    Post subject: Better video / filming at the worlds 2006 in Sheffield Reply with quote

The seethegame research included:
* underwater hockey - study the game.
* sport media - study pro camera set up and spectators comfort.
* underwater engineering - making the structures fit the game arena.
All theory from research was completed by 2002 and the concept was pitched...... ''Get the game seen by spectators''

It would benefit spectators (thay may see and so share the dynamics of a fast team game). It would benefit the players (they may see how good - or horrendous - their play or the overall team play really is, by watching the replays after a game).
Together, this may just benefit the world Wink

These pages describe the project a little more:
http://www.seethegame.info/about.html
http://www.seethegame.info/features_filming_the_game.html
These pages show some of the footage and concept filming attempts:
http://www.seethegame.info/video.html
http://www.seethegame.info/uwh_video_page.html (new website page design since April08)


Info given to the worlds management:
Early 2003 - concept of research shown to worlds management. Was noted as substantial potential as world system would benefit from advisory capacity. The seethegame project continued on its 'shoestring budget' to continue its aim.

Mid 2005 - worlds management found a production company that had the means to provide equipment and software they thought suitable to cover the media needs of the worlds 2006 underwater games to be held in Sheffield. [This is good... good for quality spectating].
Unfortunately, the worlds management mentioned to the seethegame project that they would be stealing the research and claiming it as their own [This is bad .... and a little parculiar to even mention as had been given information for good of spectators]. End reaction - continue providing info for good of spectator, but distance from social association.

End 2005 - worlds management trialed their interpretation of the video project, but came short on providing the central point - being 'give the spectator a quality view of the game-flow'. Their trials missed out the central and hardest component of the research - being the need for tilt and pan abled primary-cameras, held steady on set-positioned fluent cam-pods. [This is bad... bad as is uncomfortable for the spectator as offers broken fragmented game story].

Early 2006 - seethegame project was approached because the worlds management had just seen the club-play video samples that were achieved (by following the original research concept) and they wwondered which bit they had failed to steal Wink .

This help was requested verbally, but the worlds management were encougared to request information on missing concept in writing (a move to pop a little proof into existance - much same effect as popping a little light on and watching 'naughtyness' scuttling for cover).
Following this, the worlds management should have now incorporated supported, tilt and pan Primary Function Cameras in the system to be used to film the underwater hockey 2006 world championships to be held in Ponds Forge Swimming Pool, Sheffield.
These primary cameras and mountings are the key research conclusion to offering a spectator a comfortable view of the game story [..... and This is good! Wink
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bethany



Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 22
Location: UK Nearwater

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tapeworms stil exist, have survived millenium and unfortunately (unless you are a tapeworm, or friend of such) will survive and flourish present day and future!
Think you have shed light on the presence of such, which is a neccessary thing, and yet still held firm to the concept of the project - encourage good visual revelations about the game.

beth
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Information from research, leading to or encouraging better footage being presented to spectators, is the aim of the project - so the improving system set up (from last attempt in Dec) of the world system is a positive outcome.

Having to outwit the odd behaviour and keep the original research in the picture, was deemed worth making a stand.
The latest world system is being tested (and now should be including Primary-Cameras on Pod-Support-Arms) at Ponds Forge, Sheffield, this weekend. It should show an improvement from the December trial.


The two points left to encourage in the worlds-system, if havent incorporated already, is the final key part of an accountable ''sport media'' set up.
1. Would be that the Primary-Cameras should have their own monitors (professional standard camera-operator accountability), so that the operators are continually responsible for the framing of the shots whether or not the producer has selected their camera for main-screen view or not. This would make each camera around the game arena ''framed-shot-ready'' so the ''story of the game'' shold be smooth and fluent for the spectator when the producer switches between cameras through out the game.
2. Would be that the Primary Camera units include facility for operator to adjust telephoto lenses - this would take the spectator a little way across the pool when the game is being played on the far wing - the research thought the spectator would be left 'wanting' and 'waiting' for the play to come closer if this was overseen.
These finer points passed on. It is thought, then that the worlds' spectators in August should have quality visual access to games.
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floater



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 33
Location: UK London

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its good that the worlds have been supplied with good research. This is recorded. What or how they acknowledge is up to them and probably will be accountable now this little project has survived and upheld its own.
Goos show. The spectators in the future will benefit greatly. Aims are therefore sustained. Nice one!

F Cool
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wodger



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 17
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The concept has survived enough to '''be around'' and not be '''squashed'' or '''non- existant'''. This is a big part of producing an innovative concept... in this real competitive world.
To still exist is something many 'concepts' do not succeed at (and their ideas are usually claimed by same type of knicking and claiming name to it the idea). So have done well. Also have done well to actually cause that the worlds filming is made better than was going to be the case - and that is beneficial big-time... which was the aim of seethegame and a worthy one.
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jellybean



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 40
Location: UK London

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aye! Cool
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jellybean



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 40
Location: UK London

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sharks
Would be more substantial if attacked by sharks or wolves or lions - something with earned respect, but attacked by a tape worm would be such a smarmy and undramatic way to succumb. So dont succumb.

David and Goliath
David and Goliath - would be another cool battle, but it doesnt represent as the opponent has more resemblance to the large side as the Wizard of Oz (apparently large stature, yet behind the facard is wimpy)

Water and Goliath related!!
Its not tape worm (but stil is based on parasitical tendancies). It is Lice - not only do they have an effect (make you feel lousey when feeding off of you) - there is one called Goliath that effects Water foul!
*Holomenopon goliath - it feeds away on the surface of water foul
Water related
Goliath related

The seethegame project shall be known as 'David'! Cool

JB
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mermaid



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I consider you have continued the original concept and have acheived successfully. As well as your own venture, you have evolved the worlds system so that the spectator will get a better value of viewing. This will represent the game in better light.
The management who tried to not acknowledge has failed to do this, but have revealed an un-evolved attitude (dont strike me as being clever as have not got away with attempt). Remind me of school boy politics in the house of commons (its frightening to think this skittish behaviour/attitude exists in the 21st century) - it neither represents a 'team' spirit either.
I would think the outcome now is ok - the project is successful, the theory proved true in the ground truthing exercises (including the worlds arena - far more so than would have been).

There will be a number of neat minded people who see through any grand hype of status, and they will note and respect the foundation on which several and many future projects will be built.

m
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done.

Innovative work.

Noble conduct.

Think there is enough on record now to act as an anti-body to 'bad-form' management.

Good show - and more to come I hope.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you done noble to give the world spectators a far better view of the game (by making the world camera system conform to a far more professional standard of effort ie make the cameras move to follow and make them steady). This is great for the game.

As for them considering to attempting to claim all the status and qudos, whilst free-loading on your intellectual property - well thats a reflection on their true value of trust v arrogance of self inflated power and an obvious limitation on true intellect.

you done well, with project
you done well, with making the world system better for spectator comfort
you done well, with overall conduct and continuation of project whilst negotiating the swamp of sucking creatures
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melanie



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 31
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like mermaids summary:

Quote:
I consider you have continued the original concept and have acheived successfully. As well as your own venture, you have evolved the worlds system so that the spectator will get a better value of viewing. This will represent the game in better light.
The management who tried to not acknowledge has failed to do this, but have revealed an un-evolved attitude (dont strike me as being clever as have not got away with attempt). Remind me of school boy politics in the house of commons (its frightening to think this skittish behaviour/attitude exists in the 21st century) - it neither represents a 'team' spirit either.
I would think the outcome now is ok - the project is successful, the theory proved true in the ground truthing exercises (including the worlds arena - far more so than would have been).

There will be a number of neat minded people who see through any grand hype of status, and they will note and respect the foundation on which several and many future projects will be built.



mel
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floater



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 33
Location: UK London

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It cant be stolen now, so that is a fail. It could be 'not acknowledged' which is 'weakmans jelousy' based on greed and abuse of power of position rather than personal human power.

The research was first used for influenced:
to make sure all cameras in the worlds system were not hand held by floaters or divers - (whereas this is easy to produce, the end result for spectator is amature home movie).
This was heeded.

The research was further used for influence:
to encourage the fact that the primary cameras moved on pan tilt and hopefully telephoto adjustable.
This was heeded.

It is so.

Exclamation
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jellybean



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 40
Location: UK London

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


this quote from floater:
Quote:

The research was first used for influenced:
to make sure all cameras in the worlds system were not hand held by floaters or divers - (whereas this is easy to produce, the end result for spectator is amature home movie).
This was heeded.

The research was further used for influence:
to encourage the fact that the primary cameras moved on pan tilt and hopefully telephoto adjustable.
This was heeded.


The two points are central indeed:
The first was when the whole research was used to advise, in conversation and in good faith, being with a common interest in the sport. This communication could have continued, would have continued, if it wasnt for the extra-ordinary comment from the world video manager before christmas 2005........... after being overheard mentioning the seethegame influence on good system.... but as his own thinking! This was put to him, in which his answer was astonishing......"we steal ideas, thats what we do".

Timing would have it that the seethegame system trials (turning the theory into practice) occured in Dec and proved successful. This was the weekend before Nautilus where the world camera system, to date, were being trialed.
This point in time made clear that the world system had left out the inclusion of the primary cameras (the hardest finding of the seethegame research.... being to have primary cameras that would pan, tilt and so would need a cam-pod set up to include this.
The seethegame trials showed what a great flowing shot of the geame could be had by making the primarys have his function (as seen in the attack section of the club-play video on their website.

This proving led to the encouragement that the worlds system should make the effort and include primary cameras (instead of their static collection) and so the world spectators would be gfiven a better showing of the game flow.

This bit of the research was given to the worlds manager, (for the good of the spectator), only (wisely) this time was given in writing after requesting a written communication from the worlds as a little proof of ''research being offered over for the good of the ens result''. Thw wise move of getting writen communication was thought a good way of still making sure the world spectators got a good view of the sport, whilst elliminating the possible success that the management chap could succeed with the arrogant attitude of thinking it ok to take without acknowledgement (steal as he put it himself).
This allowed the second point of floaters quote to occur.

JB
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atapene



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 9
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is fairly interesting.

this thread is likely way dead, but, briefly...

- worlds did still have major failings... (no birdseye cam, operator stuffups, blindspots, no zooming)

- worlds in 92, however, had a full camera setup with swivels, zooms etc, and was great quality footage. add birdseye as other worlds have done and the handheld cams they had this time, and would be perfect.

- add a ref cam or something, as you have developed, and it would be fantastic. Wink
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Stephen



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 14
Location: UK plymouth

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was indeed a real shame that even with the bad form of stealing the research, it wasnt stolen with much degree of acuracy..... and the spectator was the one to loose out.

The research for the central camera system (shown in the test shots of ''club play samples'' on the seethegame website video page) included (demanded) that the system needed:
*stabalised pods with pan and tilt capability (to hold the ebb and flow of the game play.
*cameras with zoom capabilities to take the spectator across the pool when the play is on the far side (instead of left ''waiting and wanting'' for the play to come nearer again)

If worked as an honest team it would have turned out a whole lot better for the spectators ( but it seems that this little seethegame project (still to date) does not exist, in their eyes.

We are continuing though and each little progression, we are happy with ( the critter-cam being the latest concept to come off the theory and into a product as a tool to promote underwater hockey.

You mention the 2002 worlds (When I took the finished research drawings to the worlds video manager, he showed me a collection of world games.... they were all hand held cameras with non consequtive shots so the story did not exist...... this was the very thing I had set out to resolve. When I explained this, he mentioned something that newzealand set up and it sounded the proper thing to do (this I beleive is what you refer to...... they had the proffesionalism of using stabalising booms etc, I believe).

Our design was concept for club-play pools (because I have access to them only!) so as the worlds ''opportunity'' here was not able to team up and help bring the research to fruition, we potter on using meger private financed, just so the thing is a living system that we can run when ever poss at club play to collect and sort the good shots that reflect our game in good light.

The three concepts of:
club game play
critter-cam
player interviews
...are now in existance, we are just working on replacing the main cameras (no longer have access to the borrowed ones on the test shots) and to finish the muti recording units)

Then more vids (hopefully will start to influence spectators to 'see' what its about and also encourage the media that it is indeed worthy of attention if filmed as researched).... thats the aim of the project, so behind the scenes (boring bit to target audience of 'general public') am continuing bring the concept into product (painfully, painfully... I might have mention painfully... slow due to: finance, newness of concept to most general public and mupetry from few arrogant managers).

All of which are being overcome as the project is surviving, progressing and even, now is influencing others, hopefully to better the understanding of our game.

Thanks for your input.
Stephen
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